For those we lost, We will not forget 09/11/2001 “Our God given unalienable rights are given to us all as individuals. They tell us what me may do for ourselves, and they are the embodiment of liberty. The so-called rights that government gives to some of us are parcelled out to select groups as classes. They tell us what one class of people may require another to do for them, and they are the very essence of slavery.”
— Perri Nelson, February 9, 2010

A bheil Gàidhlig agaibh?

The right of the people… shall not be infringed


Published Wed, Sep 30 2009 10:09 AM

Allegedly, we are a nation governed by laws, the United States Constitution being the supreme law of the land. We’re not supposed to be governed by special interests, no matter how “well meaning” they are. Nevertheless, it’s plain that we are not a nation governed by laws, but by the whim of a few. Take for example this part of our Constitution…

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” – United States Constitution – Amendment II – Proposed October 2, 1789 – Ratified December 15, 1791

If, as I noted and as it plainly states, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land then why is it that liberals in Congress are so willing to blatantly ignore it?

“IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license” – H.R. 45 – Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in the House)

What part of “shall not be infringed” do our Congressmen not understand? Is it the two words “shall not?”

This bill, this abomination, should it ever pass into law PROHIBITS private sale of firearms, as well as requires the FEDERAL registry of all gun owners. Getting the LICENSE requires a lawyerly knowledge of FEDERAL, STATE, and LOCAL firearms laws, as well as the ARBITRARY whim of the United States Attorney General.

“In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General… a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding… the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws… any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;”

Not only that, but the federal government is going to charge you a FEE to continue to possess a gun you might already own.

“IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee”

They’re also going to make you renew this LICENSE every five years. And, you MUST provide your current address, and keep that information current (you must notify the Attorney General within 60 days of moving).

There’s no doubt what this information is wanted for. They want to take your guns away in violation of the second amendment to the constitution. Failure to comply will be punished with heavy fines and from 2 to 10 years of time in federal prison.

I wonder. Do our Congressmen really think that they’d be in their current positions if the founding fathers had complied with such onerous infringements on our rights? How can people keep voting for these imbeciles? How can we say we’re a nation of laws when the people writing them willfully ignore the supreme law of the land?


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JMB responded with:

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This self imposing and soon to be forever uncontrollable central government is pushing our republic beyond the restraining point, where further compromises will only serve to amplify this eventual annihilation of our own state governments into this general vortex that is creating its own suppositions, and afterwards reducing our republic, though its own conclusions.

The power of this whirlwind will continue to grow until our precious republic has been conquered.

This federal government has become a reversionary government that is now held at bay only by its own judiciaries self assertions, that it alone retains those rights of our peoples own republic.

We must encourage our state legislators to nullify those intrusive and overburdening federal laws that are being cantankerously contrived to disrupt, conquer, and subdue the sovereign will of the people, and their indefeasible right to this constitutional republic.

“I am fully persuaded that the population of the U S living in different Climates, of different Education and Manners, and possesed of different Habits & feelings under one consolidated Government can not long remain free, or indeed remain under any kind of Government but despotism.” - Letter sent by Samuel Adams to Elbridge Gerry, on August 22, 1789.

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/

David responded with:

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Just one of a continuing "long train of abuses"... of congresscritters' oaths of office to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same." "Abuses"? Flat out abrogation of their oaths of office, more like. They assume to themselves the power to deny their oaths of office and repeal the Constitution daily by passing into power acts that are in denial of its limits on federal power.

I am thoroughly sick of these disgusting animals.

JMB responded with:

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I really wish that I could disagree with you David.
The future for my children and my grandchildren does not look very good.

This federal government has gone absolutely insane with power, and I mean both Republicans and Democrats.

ablur responded with:

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The bill has been stuck in committee with no support. I don't think it will be going anywhere.

With the recent gun ruling from the courts, this will probably stay stuck.

David responded with:

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Frankly, I'd like to see States (or at least one state) start to limit the franchise to vote to

1. People who are of age and do not receive any payment from federal or state coffers save for military pay. Yes, this means teachers, too.
2. People who openly carry firearms. A .45 strapped to ones waist would do the trick nicely.
3. People not in any sort of publicly elective office (yes, I know #1 should take care of that, but just in case politicians *spit* try some weasel-wording... )
4. Property owners.

Were something like that to happen in any State, and were the State to stick by its 10th Amendment powers/rights, then we'd have a chance to see what a responsible government might accomplish.

(Oh, and add a mini-civics exam to each ballot. Don't pass the exam by at least 70%? Your ballot gets filed under "Who gives as ****.")

Perri Nelson responded with: Civics exam to vote...

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I think that last one (civics exams for voters) was tried once and found to be “racist.” Now there's a federal “law” that certain districts have to have any changes to their election procedures approved by the federal judiciary.

If such a law (requiring civics exams to cast successful votes) were to be put into place, it would eliminate most college graduates and over 50% of currently elected officials from the voter rolls. That doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me. It would also eliminate close to a majority of public school graduates.

The way things have gone in the last few decades only those of us that make it a point to study and learn about our founding and our history, and those people who are naturalized citizens would be left with the right to vote. I imagine if we implemented all of your suggestions here, we'd have less than 2% of the populace eligible to vote, and then only if they actually carried their weapons publicly.

It's a pleasant fantasy, but it won't be happening anytime soon. Sadly, I think the reality is closer to “reality TV” or your typical sitcom. Sex, drugs and hip-hop have replaced morals, integrity, intelligence, and taste in our culture. We ended up with the government most of us deserve, even if it's the one that will eventually make slaves of us all. If I recall correctly, that is the left's plan after all – they're just twisting the language so we'll all think we're free.

JMB responded with:

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That’s odd, most of the people that I meet in this country have plenty of intelligence, integrity, and morality, so what is the real problem? And lets all try to remember how screwed up this Federal right has made things, shall we.

Perri Nelson responded with: Rights? Morality? Integrity?

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When people claim to have a "right" to health care (as an example), that shows a lack of either integrity or morality as far as I'm concerned. Either that, or a lack of intelligent consideration of the issues. Health care is a service provided by one individual (the doctor) to another (the patient). The doctor may exhibit some degree of altruism and offer his services at a lower rate for more needy patients than for others, but that's his right and his choice. When the government gets involved, coercing the doctor to provide his services under threat, the doctor is no longer a free man, but has become a slave to the people.

Yet in today's health care debate, people don't even consider the immorality of this type of arrangement, instead asserting that they have a "right" to the coerced services of another. Republicans and Democrats alike have fallen into this immoral way of thinking, accepting the premise that health care is a right and simply negotiating now for how tight the chains should be. When the system no longer can sustain itself, they'll start withholding that care that is allegedly a "right" making value judgments about the quality of their constituent's lives and rationing care to cut costs. Since the people will be coerced to pay for "government provided" health care under penalty of prison time, they will have lost their liberties in exchange for this so-called right.

The thing about that is it shows a lack of intelligence to believe that a thing that government provides cannot also be withheld by government.

That's merely one example. Many people are indeed intelligent, whether they're on the political left or right, but an equal number are not. Intelligence isn't really the issue though, even though I did list it. Rather it's ignorance. The ISI has a rather simple civics test on their web site. It's a mere 33 questions long and yet most people (71%) that take this simple test fail (scoring 59.9% of worse). Our elected officials do even worse on this test than the average citizen. The questions on this test are simple, such as "what are the three branches of government?" or "Under Our Constitution, some powers belong to the federal government. What is one power of the federal government?" (One of the multiple choice answers for that one was "Establish standards for doctors and lawyers", which is of course NOT one of the federal government's powers, but is being asserted as such by both Democrats and Republicans, and the media.)

Integrity? How many of the people you know thought that Dan Rather was truly one of the more "honest" television anchormen (he was lauded for it by other newsmen)out there despite having deliberately aired "news" based upon falsified documents and claiming that the information in them was still accurate? More than half of the people I know personally did. Why is it that when our President lied to the American people on national television ("I did not have sex with that woman - Monica Lewinsky"), and perjured himself under oath (eventually being disbarred because of it) those same people defended him as a fundamentally good president, complaining that conservatives were all up in arms about "nothing." Even today, I have liberal friends that tell me that William Jefferson Clinton "only" lied about sex - as if that's perfectly acceptable? When did it become "moral" to commit adultery? Why is it that one of the more popular recent television programs was "Sex in the City", now picked up in syndication on a "women's programming network"? Why is it that "Desperate Housewives" is still being aired if we are such a "moral" people? Why is it that beer (and candy, particularly "TWIX") advertising encourages young people to lie? Why is a new "comedy" being release where the protagonist is the only man in the world capable of lying (the trailers make this look like it's funny, but it's not) - and people think that this is a "good idea" for a film? Why is it that if you go to a major department store or even to some restaurants now you can hear the canned music extolling the "virtues" of rape and murder with obscenities boldly spoken every fifth or sixth word? And this sort of filth wins music "awards?"

So, "what is the real problem?" I'd say it's a culture of corruption, and not just in Congress. Congress is after all, just a microcosm of what goes on outside those marble halls. We have become a nation of hedonists, bent on preserving our "rights" (actually saying we're "entitled" to this or that) at the expense of the rights of others, ignorant of our heritage and ready to throw away all that our forbears gave us. It's a rot that has been progressing for over a century.

I suppose I could blame the "media", but to a certain extent they're right - they're only producing what sells. I suppose I could blame the educational system for failing us - but a lack of parental involvement is just as much to blame.

People are smart?

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
- Agent Kay - Men In Black

If we're ever to avoid a slide into socialism, the people need to wake up and learn the truth. The fact of the matter is, people are inherently sinful by nature, politicians no less so. If we don't actively combat our own natures, everything we touch eventually decays, including our systems of government. The founders knew this. At the time of the drafting of the United States Constitution no democracy had survived for more than a couple of hundred years without falling to corruption and eventually being conquered either from without or from within. We're right at about that time frame, and our government and our society have already been fundamentally altered far away from what the framers gave us.

If we don't look to the fundamentals as a people we will lose the gift that was given to us. David's proposals won't see the light of day in our modern society, but they do suggest that perhaps the solution is an electorate that is educated about their heritage, that knows the difference between rights and entitlements, and that is willing to do what it takes to see to it that their government is under their control, rather than that of the masses.

“In a democracy (’rule by mob’), those who refuse to learn from history are in the majority and dictate that everyone else suffer for their ignorance.”-third world county’s corollary to Santayana’s Axiom

Perri Nelson responded with: What did that have to do with the original post?

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Actually, quite a lot. The original post was about the fact that our government is actively engaged in taking away our rights and liberties. That the elected officials and the bureaucrats that compose it are responsible for that is only a half truth. The rest of the truth is that you, and I, and every other person that ever cast a ballot in this country is also responsible for it.

JMB responded with:

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If you and your gang really want to take responsibility for what is happening to this country, be my guest, but as for me and my own, WE THINK THAT MY FREAND , IS A BUNCH OF HAGWASH.

Perri Nelson responded with: Hagwash...

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You are of course entitled to your opinion. I would point out though, that you are obviously aware that something terribly wrong has occurred in our government.

"The future for my children and my grandchildren does not look very good.

"This federal government has gone absolutely insane with power, and I mean both Republicans and Democrats."

Are we then to sit idly by and watch our republic collapse about us, our children and our grandchildren? Do we continue to watch as our neighbors vote for and praise those politicians that would continue to erode our liberties? Refuse to engage those that believe in the entitlement mentality, in appeasement, and who twist the meaning of words to befuddle us into thinking that this is the way things should be?

If we do that, then we are as guilty as the politicians that are stealing our liberties and our rights and driving this nation ever deeper into the pockets of our enemies. Hogwash? I think not. You and I may have to agree to disagree on this one, but I believe that educating people about our heritage and our liberties, and voting responsibly is the best way to preserve them. If we fail in that, we fail in our duty as citizens to our country, and to our children and grandchildren.

JMB responded with:

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That I agree with, but nobody will ever convince me that most people in this county believe in all these federal entitlement programs that are destroying our children’s future, the majority of the people in this country are like me, and I have never been given jack squat.

David responded with:

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Perri is in the X-ring on this. That "we the People" have consistently voted into office (and kept in office) politicians *spit* who consistently pass into statute measures that directly violate the Constitution is a measure of the greed and laziness and stupidity of the electorate (where values of stupidity include intelligent people refusing to become informed and greedily ignoring the long term effects of voting their present pocket books without regard to the effects on future generations). Such greed and lazy, willful ignorance constitutes moral depravity in a people with the capability to BE informed and make wise decisions.

This moral depravity (a willingness to take from others to satisfy ones own greed coupled with a willful disregard of the facts of how such greed affects others, etc.) MUST be present in a majority of the electorate or we'd not be in the mess we are now.

Intellectual and moral laziness (well, depravity is not too strong a word) exercised in the voting booth IS the issue. My fantasy of restricting the franchise to vote is, of course, just that: a fantasy, though one that was once a reality in the Founders' United States. That a simple literacy exam was once declared "racist" (well, in the particular case, IIRC, there were a couple of coded "trick" questions and some "creative" grading of the exams) ands all such tests declared off limits is a sad, sad thing for the republic, a moral AND well-informed public being essential to self-government.

BTW, Perri, as you may know, I make often reference to the same civics quiz you cite, among other references, Good stuff, maynard.

David responded with:

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BTW, here's an example of a guy who pretty much has the Framers' view on right to arms, although I'm a bit ambivalent about the use he put his home made mortar to...

http://www.buckstix.com/CoehornMortarHunt.htm

JMB responded with:

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Perry, I know that you would never suggest that having control, within congress, can actually provide a free people with any realistic expectations of resisting anything that it (the federal government itself) decides to make federal. So what exactly are you proposing, so as to fix the problem.

If I vote federally, republican, or demarcate, have I not just betrayed this clear understanding, and if I vote for those who wish to be federal, but never will be, can this be realistically used to the fix the problem.

Remember Perry, that I myself have proposed, that there is a method by which we may address this problem.

“We must encourage our state legislators to nullify those intrusive and overburdening federal laws that are being cantankerously contrived to disrupt, conquer, and subdue the sovereign will of the people, and their indefeasible right to this constitutional republic.”

If you do not think that this is a viable plan, please feel welcome to explain why.

Perri Nelson responded with: A plan...

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The only NATIONAL election that any of us actually has a say in is the choice of electors for President and Vice President. That's more a popularity contest than anything else, but it does have a tendency to reflect the majority of public policy opinion.

Elections for Senate and the House aren't national elections, they're state elections. We really have no control at all over the Congressmen from other states. But, having control of our own Congressmen is only a part of a much larger plan to take back our federal government. This is one of the reason's I'm an advocate of repealing the seventeenth amendment to the Constitution (although I'm enough of a realist to know that it's not going to happen in my lifetime).

Getting control of our Congressmen is (or should be) relatively straightforward. The thing to do is educate the people about what the proper role of Congress is, to educate the people when Congress passes the blame for their actions on to the Executive (The president, for example, can only propose legislation and policy. It's up to Congress to enact it.) or to the "market". We cannot for example, hold President Obama to blame for the massive deficit - the blame for that belongs squarely on Congress' shoulders. The only share of the blame that belongs to the President is for proposing the budget, and for signing the bill when it came across his desk. The specifics must be laid squarely at the feet of Congress.

So, I would include your plan as a part of a larger plan, not as the whole plan. Here's my plan for taking back our country...

  1. Each of us must take responsibility for our own lives and actions. This is paramount. The liberals have a catch phrase for this - "Think globally, act locally." There is power in the accumulated and coordinated actions of the individual.
  2. Each of us must work to educate ourselves about the Constitution of the United States, about the general working of federal law, and what the appropriate powers of the federal government should be.
  3. Each of us must work to educate ourselves about the Constitution of our own state, as well as the general working of state law and what the appropriate powers of the state government we live under are, as well as what the appropriate relationship between our state government and the federal government (and the governments of other states and nations) is.
  4. We must all make ourselves aware of the character of the men and women who aspire to office at all levels that we have a say in, from the local dogcatcher, to state representatives, to federal representatives, to the President. Then we must vote according to our understanding of that character and the responsibilities and duties of the office in question. And we must do this at every level of government.
  5. We must, each of us, having done all of the preceding things, educate one another about the things we have found. We must persuade one another as to why these things matter, and be willing to be educated ourselves.
  6. Finally, and only after we have done the other things, we must hold those we elect accountable at all levels of public office. This is where your proposal finally fits in. Without strength of numbers and strength of conviction, your plan isn't workable. Without a clear understanding in the voting population as to why it's right or wrong for federal powers to be expanded or curtailed in favor or at the expense of state powers, no amount of haranguing our state legislatures will have any effect.

As I understand it, the federal government's primary purpose is the defense of the United States. It's secondary purpose is to ensure peace between the United States. It is the primary purpose of the States to govern the people and to exercise jurisdiction within their own borders only - not to negotiate with foreign powers. This was the purpose of the tenth amendment - to ensure that this arrangement stayed in place.

So yes, it is important to me that our state legislatures take back their rights and responsibilities. It won't happen though, until the voting public becomes aware of the scope of the problem and the scope of their powers. Elections matter, and they are the only way we have to take back our government. The many elections that have put socialists that don't believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility indicate to me that the average citizen is not that intelligent or informed, and so I believe education is the first step.

The road to liberty will be a long one. We've spent 222 years on the road to tyranny, as apathy has set in and we allowed the idea of a "perfect union" to become entrenched. The Constitution was established in part "to form a more perfect union." But, it was never the founders intent that we be all one jurisdiction.

David responded with: Take Back Your Government

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May I suggest a quick glance at http://www.thirdworldcounty.us/?p=6100?

I just bought the 2 eBooks referenced in the link above and am reading the Heinlein politics tutorial, Take Back Your Government, first. The "shoe leather" techniques he talks about may be old tech, but I can see them being just as effective today, and I can see where updating for contemporary technological advantages can expand the effectiveness of some of the techniques he has outlined so far in my reading. The other book mentioned has to do with the modern tea party movement, written by a housewife who got involved in similar activities in the '90s and is now a State representative.

Just reading for now. I'll need to digest this stuff in time for 2010, though...

JMB responded with:

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Yes, Perri, it would be foolhardy to exclude your intently reasonable plan from this struggle.
Though I think it is impossible to implement many of your suggestions realistically, until these individual congressmen have to actually start thinking for themselves, as long as we vote for people who do not read these bills that they are themselves signing, we will be assured that none of these legislators will likely know if what they are signing actually supports what they themselves have envisioned, and until this ridiculousness is rectified, our right to vote will mean very little more then an idle submission to unmitigated venerability, anything wished, or not wished, federal, is now mandatory.

This congress has been in the business of writing and enacting laws for over 200 years, if they cannot do their jobs responsibly by now, what makes you think they ever will.

It is unrealistic to expect these feds to restrain themselves from powers acquirable, without they them having any expectations that their demands may be resisted, or just plainly ignored.

Perri Nelson responded with:

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Each "congress" has a term of two years. Every two years we have the opportunity to replace every sitting Representative. Every six years we can replace one or possibly two (depending on where you live) of our sitting Senators. This will almost never be successful during the general election, so we have to strike during the primaries.

These elections are far more important than the Presidential election though. While the president may set the agenda through popularity and by virtue of leading his party, only Congress is responsible for writing federal laws and passing budgets, taxes and the like. We put too much emphasis on the President, primarily because it is the only national election that all of the people participate in, but the President's powers are considerably limited compared to the powers of Congress.

As long as our Congressmen are human, they will be subject to corruption and venal influences. The status quo will probably be maintained even if we manage to oust the sitting Representatives and Senators anyway, thanks to the entrenched careerist federal bureaucracy and the system in place for congressional staffers, many of whom end up writing the actual language for our bills anyway.

We have a much better chance of reforming our state governments than the federal government. That's why we need to start locally. Our states will not assert their tenth amendment rights unless the people in our state offices understand those rights and the reasons for asserting them.

The only alternative to working from the grass roots level to clean up local and state government is armed revolution. The chances of that being successful are fairly slim. Especially when you consider that close to a third of the populace actually likes the direction things are going and another third is too apathetic to really care.

Angel responded with:

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long time no see my friend..! sent several emails but they bounced back?..send me new addy please! Busy weekend for a change..hope youre doin well!!:)

Danielle KInderseiten responded with: Rights?

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Human rights are infringed all over the world. Not only in the poorest countries of the world, but also in our everyday life, in "civilized" countries where the most important goals are only one's own interests.

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